Installing on PowerBook G4 - grub failure

[Steffen Grunewald]

Hi all,

I'm sorry I've got to chime in, but I'm currently lost trying to install
Debian on a resuscitated PowerBook G4 - which got a new disk during the
process (M.2 128 GB "disk" in M.2-to-44-pin-IDE adapter) as the old one
must have been broken and removed...

I've started from CD, the image advertises itself as

11.0.0 "Sid" Unofficial powerpc NETINST 20211006-11:28

and the install process proceeds nicely - until grub needs to be installed.
The guided setup created /dev/sda2 for /boot/grub (but didn't mount it into
/target!), /dev/sda3 for /, etc.

I suppose I've got to use the second console to fill in the necessary
actions to get grub installed, right? How? (And am I using the right disk?)

Any hints are welcome; I used to keep documentation whereever possible but
in this case too much time has passed :(

Thanks,
Steffen

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi Steffen,

Post by Steffen Grunewald
I'm sorry I've got to chime in, but I'm currently lost trying to install
Debian on a resuscitated PowerBook G4 - which got a new disk during the
process (M.2 128 GB "disk" in M.2-to-44-pin-IDE adapter) as the old one
must have been broken and removed...
I've started from CD, the image advertises itself as
11.0.0 "Sid" Unofficial powerpc NETINST 20211006-11:28
and the install process proceeds nicely - until grub needs to be installed.
The guided setup created /dev/sda2 for /boot/grub (but didn't mount it into
/target!), /dev/sda3 for /, etc.
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-06-18/debian-12.0.0-powerpc-NETINST-1.iso

I should probably mark the old images as deprecated as a lot of users seem to
be using them only to realize they don't work.

Adrian

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz

Post by Steffen Grunewald
I'm sorry I've got to chime in, but I'm currently lost trying to install
Debian on a resuscitated PowerBook G4 - which got a new disk during the
process (M.2 128 GB "disk" in M.2-to-44-pin-IDE adapter) as the old one
must have been broken and removed...
I've started from CD, the image advertises itself as
11.0.0 "Sid" Unofficial powerpc NETINST 20211006-11:28
and the install process proceeds nicely - until grub needs to be installed.
The guided setup created /dev/sda2 for /boot/grub (but didn't mount it into
/target!), /dev/sda3 for /, etc.
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-06-18/debian-12.0.0-powerpc-NETINST-1.iso

I should probably mark the old images as deprecated as a lot of users seem to
be using them only to realize they don't work.

Please note you have to boot the machine into kernel 6.3.0-1 from GRUB (Advanced Options)
as the 6.10.x kernels currently suffer from a regression on 32-bit PowerPC which has been
fixed in the 6.11.x kernels.

Adrian

[Steffen Grunewald]

Hi Adrian,

Post by Steffen Grunewald
11.0.0 "Sid" Unofficial powerpc NETINST 20211006-11:28

That image is quite old.

It must have served a purpose a while ago, and this PowerBook is the only ARM
device around, AFAICT. Hm. I'm pretty sure this was useful once.
Another piece of junk then...

Post by Steffen Grunewald
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-06-18/debian-12.0.0-powerpc-NETINST-1.iso

Fortunately, the PB boots off a CR-RW... (but not a USB key), there
are no "normal" writable CDs around anymore (but my desktop PC still
has a writer)

This indeed doesn't pop up the complaint I was seeing before, that
"Your boot partition is not located on the first primary partition..."
while running a default install (I'll go back and redo the install
with custom settings - once I know there are no other pitfalls).

Despite the age of the CD image, I'm supposed to use the default
mirror settings?

Whatever might have gone wrong: after finishing the install, ejecting the
disk and rebooting, I now have a blinking question mark inside a folder icon.
I had to keep the option key pressed to get a GNU (amd after a while, could
click the -> symbol to proceed to GRUB which then attempted to boot the
6.10.11-powerpc kernel... and kicked me into OF with "Invalid memory access"
after "You can't boot a kdump kernel from OF!".

Whatever that asks me to do next...

I should probably mark the old images as deprecated as a lot of users seem to
be using them only to realize they don't work.

Looking for info I found there's a lot of inconsistent information around,
but perhaps that's why the site is called "macrumors" in the 1st place? =:-)

For now, I can confirm that the 2023-06-18 snapshot works to install on a
15" aluminum PC G4 (PB 5,4; A1095) with a - still working! - SuperDrive.
I'm curious whether USB keys might also work (i.e., how to make this beast
attempt to boot from USB in the case that no CD drive is available?)


Thanks so far,
Steffen

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Post by Steffen Grunewald
after "You can't boot a kdump kernel from OF!".
Whatever that asks me to do next...

Hm, #1079755i (and #1079725). I should have remembered this.
I guess a reasonable workaround would be to use the kernel from the CD?

As I said in my second mail, please just boot into 6.3.0-1 which is shown
in the Advanced Options menu of GRUB. You can then install 6.11.x from
experimental where this issue has been fixed - once the kernel package has

https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=linux&suite=experimental

Adrian

[Steffen Grunewald]

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
As I said in my second mail, please just boot into 6.3.0-1 which is shown
in the Advanced Options menu of GRUB. You can then install 6.11.x from
experimental where this issue has been fixed - once the kernel package has

https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=linux&suite=experimental

For whatever reason, the powerpc build didn't succeed there, but now 6.11.2
made it into "official" sid so I'm going with that ;)

Thanks again,
Steffen

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Post by Steffen Grunewald

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
As I said in my second mail, please just boot into 6.3.0-1 which is shown
in the Advanced Options menu of GRUB. You can then install 6.11.x from
experimental where this issue has been fixed - once the kernel package has

https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=linux&suite=experimental

For whatever reason, the powerpc build didn't succeed there, but now 6.11.2
made it into "official" sid so I'm going with that ;)

The reason for this failure is the bug #1076564 [1].

Adrian

Post by Steffen Grunewald
[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1076564

[Steffen Grunewald]

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz

Post by Steffen Grunewald

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
As I said in my second mail, please just boot into 6.3.0-1 which is shown
in the Advanced Options menu of GRUB. You can then install 6.11.x from
experimental where this issue has been fixed - once the kernel package has

https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=linux&suite=experimental

For whatever reason, the powerpc build didn't succeed there, but now 6.11.2
made it into "official" sid so I'm going with that ;)

The reason for this failure is the bug #1076564 [1].

I had guessed that (I even have the bug page open) but that one seems to be
somewhat spurious ... in any case, the new kernel made it, so for now I'm happy

- S

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Post by Steffen Grunewald

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
The reason for this failure is the bug #1076564 [1].

I had guessed that (I even have the bug page open) but that one seems to be
somewhat spurious ... in any case, the new kernel made it, so for now I'm happy

I assume the new kernel works fine on your PowerBook G4 so far?

I should maybe update my iBook G4 as well.

Adrian

[Steffen Grunewald]

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
I assume the new kernel works fine on your PowerBook G4 so far?

It does - I didn't give it thorough testing yet, but it boots without any
hiccups. I spotted some BT complaint which likely is unrelated.

Now I've got to find out what the difference between a "shutdown -r"
(which gives my that infamous folder view instead of the GRUB menu) and a
full power-off plus manual power-on (this works) might be.
OTOH, this laptop won't be restarted that often. I just have to remember
that it takes a special sequence.

Best,
S

[Steffen Grunewald]

Post by Steffen Grunewald
after "You can't boot a kdump kernel from OF!".
Whatever that asks me to do next...

Hm, #1079755i (and #1079725). I should have remembered this.
I guess a reasonable workaround would be to use the kernel from the CD?

- S

[Lennart Sorensen]

Post by Steffen Grunewald
Hi Adrian,

Post by Steffen Grunewald
11.0.0 "Sid" Unofficial powerpc NETINST 20211006-11:28

That image is quite old.

It must have served a purpose a while ago, and this PowerBook is the only ARM
device around, AFAICT. Hm. I'm pretty sure this was useful once.
Another piece of junk then...

Post by Steffen Grunewald
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-06-18/debian-12.0.0-powerpc-NETINST-1.iso

Fortunately, the PB boots off a CR-RW... (but not a USB key), there
are no "normal" writable CDs around anymore (but my desktop PC still
has a writer)

You mean you can't buy new media?

That seems odd, my local computer store has CD-R, DVD-R and BD-R in
stock on the shelf, not special order of anything. The rewritable discs
do seem to have gone away.

For how much longer though could be a good question. Maybe they just
haven't run out of stock they got a long time ago.

[Efraim Flashner]

Post by Steffen Grunewald
Hi Adrian,

Post by Steffen Grunewald
11.0.0 "Sid" Unofficial powerpc NETINST 20211006-11:28

That image is quite old.

It must have served a purpose a while ago, and this PowerBook is the only ARM
device around, AFAICT. Hm. I'm pretty sure this was useful once.
Another piece of junk then...

Post by Steffen Grunewald
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/snapshots/2023-06-18/debian-12.0.0-powerpc-NETINST-1.iso

Fortunately, the PB boots off a CR-RW... (but not a USB key), there
are no "normal" writable CDs around anymore (but my desktop PC still
has a writer)

I know the powerbook and ibook are different machines, but I was able to
boot my ibook off a USB stick. I'll drop the link here in case it does
actually work for you.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2023/10/msg00024.html

[Steffen Grunewald]

Hi Efraim,

Post by Efraim Flashner
I know the powerbook and ibook are different machines, but I was able to
boot my ibook off a USB stick. I'll drop the link here in case it does
actually work for you.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2023/10/msg00024.html

Tried that - the left USB port seems to be usb1, usb0 would be on the right
side then, I guess.

(What may help to find the right device is the "dev / ls" command of OF,
which will show the "***@1" being attached to some "***@1b,1" (I moved
the stick to the right port) sub-structure of a "***@f200000" bus, and
the "devalias" command which shows that "usb0" belongs to that.)

But, even if I specify the right path, OF just hangs on the boot command.
(If I choose the wrong "usbx" at least I get an error message.)
Or am I just lacking some extra backslashes?
Is this OF too old to do this job / to handle powerpc.elf?


Got to re-read https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2012/08/msg00042.html
next.


Thanks so far -

Steffen

[Mark Cave-Ayland]

Post by Steffen Grunewald
Hi Efraim,

Post by Efraim Flashner
I know the powerbook and ibook are different machines, but I was able to
boot my ibook off a USB stick. I'll drop the link here in case it does
actually work for you.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2023/10/msg00024.html

Tried that - the left USB port seems to be usb1, usb0 would be on the right
side then, I guess.
(What may help to find the right device is the "dev / ls" command of OF,
the "devalias" command which shows that "usb0" belongs to that.)
But, even if I specify the right path, OF just hangs on the boot command.
(If I choose the wrong "usbx" at least I get an error message.)
Or am I just lacking some extra backslashes?
Is this OF too old to do this job / to handle powerpc.elf?
Got to re-read https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2012/08/msg00042.html
next.

FWIW I did my last install on a G4 Mac Mini using a USB stick running Adrian's latest
(at the time) image. I used dd to copy the netinst image to a USB stick, used
"show-devs" to locate the USB drive, and then tweaked the cd alias to point to it:

devalias cd /***@f2000000 ....
boot cd:,\\:tbxi (I think?)

The gotcha for me was that the bootloader was hardcoded to use the cd alias which is
why I had to temporarily change it rather than use the usb0/usb1 aliases.


ATB,

Mark.

[Steffen Grunewald]

Post by Mark Cave-Ayland
FWIW I did my last install on a G4 Mac Mini using a USB stick running
Adrian's latest (at the time) image. I used dd to copy the netinst image to
a USB stick, used "show-devs" to locate the USB drive, and then tweaked the
boot cd:,\\:tbxi (I think?)

Worth an attempt, but results in

load-size=0 adler32=1

LOAD_SIZE is too small

(same respronse if I try other "file" names)

There are hints in some forum threads that the A1095 indeed may be one of
few (perhaps the only?) G4 models that cannot boot from USB.
BootROM version is 4.8.6f0, fwiw.


Thanks,
S

[Mark Cave-Ayland]

Post by Steffen Grunewald

Post by Mark Cave-Ayland
FWIW I did my last install on a G4 Mac Mini using a USB stick running
Adrian's latest (at the time) image. I used dd to copy the netinst image to
a USB stick, used "show-devs" to locate the USB drive, and then tweaked the
boot cd:,\\:tbxi (I think?)

Worth an attempt, but results in
load-size=0 adler32=1
LOAD_SIZE is too small
(same respronse if I try other "file" names)
There are hints in some forum threads that the A1095 indeed may be one of
few (perhaps the only?) G4 models that cannot boot from USB.
BootROM version is 4.8.6f0, fwiw.

That's frustrating. Can you confirm which partition contains the main filesystem by
testing each number from 0 to 9 e.g.

dir usb0:0,\
dir usb0:1,\
dir usb0:2,\
...
...
dir usb0:9,\


ATB,

Mark.

[Mike]

Yo! I'm lost trying to make mental notes of my actual notes, but im om it
and wont give 'much rest' till im halfway there, my best suggestion is to
use OpenFirmware 'truckery' and boot grub to boot the proper ISO or env?

Post by Mark Cave-Ayland

Post by Steffen Grunewald

Post by Mark Cave-Ayland
FWIW I did my last install on a G4 Mac Mini using a USB stick running
Adrian's latest (at the time) image. I used dd to copy the netinst

image to

Post by Steffen Grunewald

Post by Mark Cave-Ayland
a USB stick, used "show-devs" to locate the USB drive, and then tweaked

the

Post by Steffen Grunewald

Post by Mark Cave-Ayland
boot cd:,\\:tbxi (I think?)

Worth an attempt, but results in
load-size=0 adler32=1
LOAD_SIZE is too small
(same respronse if I try other "file" names)
There are hints in some forum threads that the A1095 indeed may be one of
few (perhaps the only?) G4 models that cannot boot from USB.
BootROM version is 4.8.6f0, fwiw.

That's frustrating. Can you confirm which partition contains the main filesystem by
testing each number from 0 to 9 e.g.
dir usb0:0,\
dir usb0:1,\
dir usb0:2,\
...
...
dir usb0:9,\
ATB,
Mark.

[Steffen Grunewald]

Post by Mark Cave-Ayland

Post by Steffen Grunewald
There are hints in some forum threads that the A1095 indeed may be one of
few (perhaps the only?) G4 models that cannot boot from USB.
BootROM version is 4.8.6f0, fwiw.

That's frustrating. Can you confirm which partition contains the main
filesystem by testing each number from 0 to 9 e.g.
dir usb0:0,\
dir usb0:1,\
dir usb0:2,\
...
...
dir usb0:9,\

None of them (for usb1, including "dir usb1" and "dir usb1:") worked,
"DIR method failed" being the uniform result.

Should I be able to run some "dir cd:..." (same image) successfully?

Thanks,
Steffen

[Ed Robbins]

FWIW on most of my machines "boot ud:,\\yaboot" will boot from USB,
but not all of them.

On Thu, 26 Sept 2024 at 12:47, Steffen Grunewald

Post by Steffen Grunewald

Post by Mark Cave-Ayland

Post by Steffen Grunewald
There are hints in some forum threads that the A1095 indeed may be one of
few (perhaps the only?) G4 models that cannot boot from USB.
BootROM version is 4.8.6f0, fwiw.

That's frustrating. Can you confirm which partition contains the main
filesystem by testing each number from 0 to 9 e.g.
dir usb0:0,\
dir usb0:1,\
dir usb0:2,\
...
...
dir usb0:9,\

None of them (for usb1, including "dir usb1" and "dir usb1:") worked,
"DIR method failed" being the uniform result.
Should I be able to run some "dir cd:..." (same image) successfully?
Thanks,
Steffen

[Steffen Grunewald]

Post by Ed Robbins
FWIW on most of my machines "boot ud:,\\yaboot" will boot from USB,
but not all of them.
On Thu, 26 Sept 2024 at 12:47, Steffen Grunewald

Post by Steffen Grunewald
There are hints in some forum threads that the A1095 indeed may be one of
few (perhaps the only?) G4 models that cannot boot from USB.
BootROM version is 4.8.6f0, fwiw.

My A1095, "boot ud:,\\yaboot" from OF after fresh power-on, gives me
the grub screen, but from my disk install, not the USB key in usb1:
nur usb0. It turns out that there is no ud device, as "devalias" shows,
"no alias" and "dir ud:" confirms "can't open the DIR device".
So this is yet another dead end.

- S