Trouble installing on iBook G4

[Cedar Maxwell]

Hello PowerPC Debian users,


I just installed the latest stable Debian iso on my iBook G4, but the
grub bootloader install failed during the installation.  When I boot, I
get the grub prompt.  I've been trying to follow the instructions at
posts like this one:

https://superuser.com/questions/1237684/how-to-boot-from-grub-shell

but the output ls gives me a ton of ieee devices and there's some weird
glitch with GRUB where once I get a third way down the screen the text
starts printing on top of existing text, so I can't see what I'm doing
so I have to reboot and start over. Anyways, I'm guessing someone has
probably had this same issue with this port before and that the powerpc
port differs from x86 linux in this regard, so I thought I'd just ask
the mailing list. Can anyone offer advice?

[Ken Cunningham]

There was talk a few years ago about an installation FAQ for Apple PowerPC systems, but in the end, the idea was vetoed.

Look backward though this mailing list -- you will find someone has asked the exact same question recently. It comes up every few weeks / months.

In the answer to that question, the user will have been pointed to a special ISO installer that has been modified specifically to work on PowerPC Macs.

These are released every now and then.

Once you get that special modified ISO, you should be OK.

No other ISOs will work that haven't been specially modified.

Good luck,

K

Post by Cedar Maxwell
Hello PowerPC Debian users,
https://superuser.com/questions/1237684/how-to-boot-from-grub-shell
but the output ls gives me a ton of ieee devices and there's some weird glitch with GRUB where once I get a third way down the screen the text starts printing on top of existing text, so I can't see what I'm doing so I have to reboot and start over. Anyways, I'm guessing someone has probably had this same issue with this port before and that the powerpc port differs from x86 linux in this regard, so I thought I'd just ask the mailing list. Can anyone offer advice?
--
Sincerely,
Cedar Maxwell

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello Cedar,

Post by Cedar Maxwell
I just installed the latest stable Debian iso on my iBook G4, but the
grub bootloader install failed during the installation.  When I boot,
I get the grub prompt.

Please provide the URL of the installation image that you used to install
this machine. Not all images work properly on Apple PowerMac.

I am planning to create new installation images in the near future.

Adrian

[Cedar Maxwell]

Hello Adrian,


Thank you for your reply.  Here is the link to the image I used:
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/12.0/powerpc .  Following K's
suggestion, I looked back through the mailing list.  I didn't find the
solution there, but elsewhere, on Google, I found the solution to GRUB
not installing was to have the Ethernet hooked up during installation. 
I reinstalled and I appear to have a mostly functional system, with some
quirks.  I think perhaps my first installation didn't get wiped,
although I was quite certain the installer said it was formatting the
disk.  When I boot I get the GRUB menu  fine, but I have to select
Advanced Options because otherwise the system crashes to Open Firmware
with the following message: Error: You can't boot a kdump kernel from
OF! Invalid memory access at %SRR0: 032c04a4 %SRR1: 00023030.


Then, in Advanced Options, I have two versions listed, 6.10.7 and
6.1.0-9.  I have to pick 6.1.0-9 otherwise I get the above crash
message.  But once I get past that, I have a working desktop!


When I try to run apt update && apt upgrade, I get the following:
"Warning: Skipping acquire of configured file 'main/source/Sources' as
repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian-ports sid inRelease' does not
seem to prove it (sources.list entry misspelt?)"  Perhaps this is
related to why so many packages are broken or have unmet and
uninstallable dependencies?  For instance, LibreOffice (preinstalled)
can't be launched because it has a bunch of unmet dependencies which
can't be installed.


During installation, the installer complained that I was "Missing
firmware files b43/ucode5.fw b43-open/ucode5.fw"  I tried installing
firmware-b43-installer, but the package doesn't exist. Most information
I found online about this appears to be outdated, or suggested that I
would have to compile the drivers from source.  But where even is the
source?


lspci recognizes my graphics card (AMD/ATI Radeon Mobility 9550) but
judging by the performance it looks like I'm stuck in software
rendering.  All the answers online I found said that graphics drivers
haven't been available in several years.  Is this still the case?


For reference, my iBook G4's identifier is PowerBook 6,7.  12" model,
1.33GHz, 1.5GB RAM.


I appreciate your hard work and dedication to this old platform.

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Hello Cedar,

Post by Cedar Maxwell
I just installed the latest stable Debian iso on my iBook G4, but the
grub bootloader install failed during the installation.  When I boot,
I get the grub prompt.

Please provide the URL of the installation image that you used to install
this machine. Not all images work properly on Apple PowerMac.
I am planning to create new installation images in the near future.
Adrian

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi Cedar,

Post by Cedar Maxwell
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/12.0/powerpc

That one doesn't work. Let me pick the proper image for you first
as further discussions should be based on a known to work image.

Adrian

[Cedar Maxwell]

Hello Adrian,


Great, which one is the proper image?


I went ahead and tried this one:
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/

The Ethernet worked during the installation, but afterwards Debian
doesn't detect it at all.

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Hi Cedar,

Post by Cedar Maxwell
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/12.0/powerpc

That one doesn't work. Let me pick the proper image for you first
as further discussions should be based on a known to work image.
Adrian

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi,

Post by Cedar Maxwell
Great, which one is the proper image?

Sorry, I was too busy and forgot looking for the recommended image.

Post by Cedar Maxwell
I went ahead and tried this one: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/
 
The Ethernet worked during the installation, but afterwards Debian doesn't detect it at all.

You might be missing firmware here that you have to install.

Did you try booting into an older kernel from GRUB? I would assume that the installer
installed both the older kernel version from CD as well as the latest kernel from
the repositories.

Adrian

[Mike]

Keeping an eye on everything 'boot' if anyone has any suggestions or
thought's and notes of my notes, please let me know, im apparently trying
to solve all the problems i can imagine;
https://github.com/threader/AltanOS
https://github.com/threader/xnu_gcc_libc_etc_darwin
Im especially interested in yaboot configs and grub.confs or whatever, i
need both Debian/Netbsd/OSX and would we even bother winnt-ppc much? Still
my notes here are dizzying and im chillig and nailing down notes, i mean,
no one can kill an open source thought note? No?

I basically decided i need to handle booting on ppc anyway, my debian and
setup is ancient, and i dont want to jump without gaving ' the foggiest
idea' what im doing ' ( i love that commit msg and im going to frame it on
my wall or something ;)

On Fri, 20 Sept 2024, 08:06 John Paul Adrian Glaubitz, <

Post by John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
Hi,

Post by Cedar Maxwell
Great, which one is the proper image?

Sorry, I was too busy and forgot looking for the recommended image.
https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/

Post by Cedar Maxwell
The Ethernet worked during the installation, but afterwards Debian

doesn't detect it at all.
You might be missing firmware here that you have to install.
Did you try booting into an older kernel from GRUB? I would assume that the installer
installed both the older kernel version from CD as well as the latest kernel from
the repositories.
Adrian
--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer
`. `' Physicist
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

[Cedar Maxwell]

Hello Adrian,


Yes, I tried booting into the older kernel from GRUB.  In fact,
attempting to load the latest kernel from the repositories causes the
system to crash back to Open Firmware, as discussed previously.


However, you mentioned that all further discussion should be based on a
known working image.  Does the image I used fit this description?

I went ahead and tried this one:https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/

[Ken Cunningham]

So the key points are:

1. you have to use the special ISO, and no other ISO than the latest special ISO should be used. Right now, I think you're still waiting to hear which ISO that is.
2. Do NOT believe any other website you might find or YouTube channel you might find that claims to tell you how to install debian on PPC. I have not yet seen a single one of them that has accurate information on it.
3. use GRUB. Use all the default settings during the ISO installation. Forget about triple booting into nine different operating systems. Give debian the whole disk.
4. the latest kernel is broken. Don't use it. You have to use the previous working kernel instead, and not upgrade the kernel until the issue gets sorted out.
5. you have to manually install the firmware needed to support the hardware. It's not installed by default as it is not free, so debian won't bundle it.
6. use a plugged-in ethernet connection. WIFI works, eventually, after a lot of screwing around, but don't bother with it off the start.
7. getting from the terminal display (text screen) to a whole GUI graphical interface takes a while. There will be blood. Not all video cards will work right. You will be sure you have set everything up right, but it just won't work. And then you will discover some setting that wasn't right, and it will finally work. And then you should never touch it again :> .
8. be careful with large updates / upgrades. You can quite easily get yourself into a situation where you have broken everything, and will see no good path back to a working state.


Ken

Post by Cedar Maxwell
Hello Adrian,
Yes, I tried booting into the older kernel from GRUB. In fact, attempting to load the latest kernel from the repositories causes the system to crash back to Open Firmware, as discussed previously.
However, you mentioned that all further discussion should be based on a known working image. Does the image I used fit this description?

Post by Cedar Maxwell
I went ahead and tried this one: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/

--
Sincerely,
Cedar Maxwell

[Mike]

What about installing from a qemu or debbootstrap from a usb/chroot and do
some OF trickery?

Post by Ken Cunningham
1. you have to use the special ISO, and no other ISO than the latest
special ISO should be used. Right now, I think you're still waiting to hear
which ISO that is.
2. Do NOT believe any other website you might find or YouTube channel you
might find that claims to tell you how to install debian on PPC. I have not
yet seen a single one of them that has accurate information on it.
3. use GRUB. Use all the default settings during the ISO installation.
Forget about triple booting into nine different operating systems. Give
debian the whole disk.
4. the latest kernel is broken. Don't use it. You have to use the previous
working kernel instead, and not upgrade the kernel until the issue gets
sorted out.
5. you have to manually install the firmware needed to support the
hardware. It's not installed by default as it is not free, so debian won't
bundle it.
6. use a plugged-in ethernet connection. WIFI works, eventually, after a
lot of screwing around, but don't bother with it off the start.
7. getting from the terminal display (text screen) to a whole GUI
graphical interface takes a while. There will be blood. Not all video cards
will work right. You will be sure you have set everything up right, but it
just won't work. And then you will discover some setting that wasn't right,
and it will finally work. And then you should never touch it again :> .
8. be careful with large updates / upgrades. You can quite easily get
yourself into a situation where you have broken everything, and will see no
good path back to a working state.
Ken
Hello Adrian,
Yes, I tried booting into the older kernel from GRUB. In fact, attempting
to load the latest kernel from the repositories causes the system to crash
back to Open Firmware, as discussed previously.
However, you mentioned that all further discussion should be based on a
known working image. Does the image I used fit this description?
I went ahead and tried this one: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/
--
Sincerely,
Cedar Maxwell

[Mike]

It is very much the problem i will be trying to fix when
https://github.com/threader/AltanOS/tree/main/src/ppc/linux_ppc32_deb is in
order, it'll take some time to work out everything and clean up all and
build from a buildroot or debian build. I'm going to visit the
debian-installer soon anyway, it's a matter of planning and execution, im
having enough fun toying with thoughts atm, but these problems with booting
ppc etc. have been on my mind since i heard about grun for ppc. I see i
compiled 'kexecboot' https://github.com/kexecboot/kexecboot but i must have
forgotten to upload it or something, i need to verify my XNU stuff before i
do much more really.

Post by Mike
What about installing from a qemu or debbootstrap from a usb/chroot and do
some OF trickery?
On Sun, 22 Sept 2024, 06:28 Ken Cunningham, <

Post by Ken Cunningham
1. you have to use the special ISO, and no other ISO than the latest
special ISO should be used. Right now, I think you're still waiting to hear
which ISO that is.
2. Do NOT believe any other website you might find or YouTube channel you
might find that claims to tell you how to install debian on PPC. I have not
yet seen a single one of them that has accurate information on it.
3. use GRUB. Use all the default settings during the ISO installation.
Forget about triple booting into nine different operating systems. Give
debian the whole disk.
4. the latest kernel is broken. Don't use it. You have to use the
previous working kernel instead, and not upgrade the kernel until the issue
gets sorted out.
5. you have to manually install the firmware needed to support the
hardware. It's not installed by default as it is not free, so debian won't
bundle it.
6. use a plugged-in ethernet connection. WIFI works, eventually, after a
lot of screwing around, but don't bother with it off the start.
7. getting from the terminal display (text screen) to a whole GUI
graphical interface takes a while. There will be blood. Not all video cards
will work right. You will be sure you have set everything up right, but it
just won't work. And then you will discover some setting that wasn't right,
and it will finally work. And then you should never touch it again :> .
8. be careful with large updates / upgrades. You can quite easily get
yourself into a situation where you have broken everything, and will see no
good path back to a working state.
Ken
Hello Adrian,
Yes, I tried booting into the older kernel from GRUB. In fact,
attempting to load the latest kernel from the repositories causes the
system to crash back to Open Firmware, as discussed previously.
However, you mentioned that all further discussion should be based on a
known working image. Does the image I used fit this description?
I went ahead and tried this one: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/
--
Sincerely,
Cedar Maxwell